Hydraulic Die Forming Discussion Group

Problem with conforming steel epoxy failing to release.

Jon Olson
silverartisans@yahoo.com
Thu Jul 17 '08

I really don't know what I could be doing wrong... after making the female die from the wax model (no undercuts holes etc.) I thoroughly coat with either silicone, mineral oil, or vaseline. I've tried other stuff also, and nothing seems to allow release CONSISTENTLY. I've wrecked allot dies because of their failure to release.

I notice that Susan Kingsley, in her book, says not to use styrofoam or plastic cups for mixing the epoxy steel, why not plastic? Could this possibly be my problem?

Any help would be appreciated.

Jon

Re: Problem with conforming steel epoxy failing to release.

Jack Berry
berry2000@cox.net
Fri Jul 18 '08

This won't help, Jon, because I don't know if the plastic is the problem. I just wanted to add that once I tried to thin the steel epoxy with just a few drops of laquer thinner. It thinned quite well but would not polymerize after that!! Sensitive stuff. Try this: mix a very small amount of the liquid steel (no dies used!)in two containers - one plastic and one small paper cup. Test these for separation using retaining rings from something like short sections of small diameter copper pipe. Don't spend time with a good wax model - just any shape. ....Jack
On Thu Jul 17 '08, Jon Olson wrote
----------------------------------
>I really don't know what I could be doing wrong... after making the female die from the wax model (no undercuts holes etc.) I thoroughly coat with either silicone, mineral oil, or vaseline. I've tried other stuff also, and nothing seems to allow release CONSISTENTLY. I've wrecked allot dies because of their failure to release.

>I notice that Susan Kingsley, in her book, says not to use styrofoam or plastic cups for mixing the epoxy steel, why not plastic? Could this possibly be my problem?

>Any help would be appreciated.

>Jon

Re: Problem with conforming steel epoxy failing to release.

Jim Binnion
jbin@well.com
Fri Jul 18 '08

Epoxy has excellent adhesion to a wide variety of surfaces and because of that tendancy it is difficult to find a good mold release agent. None of the items you have mentioned are a good mold release for epoxy. Most epoxy mold release agents are wax based some loaded w teflon.

You can buy mold releases for epoxy from many sources, google epoxy mold release.

Jim

Re^2: Problem with conforming steel epoxy failing to release.

Jon Olson
silverartisans@yahoo.com
Fri Jul 18 '08

On Fri Jul 18 '08, Jim Binnion wrote
------------------------------------
>Epoxy has excellent adhesion to a wide variety of surfaces and because of that tendancy it is difficult to find a good mold release agent. None of the items you have mentioned are a good mold release for epoxy. Most epoxy mold release agents are wax based some loaded w teflon.

>You can buy mold releases for epoxy from many sources, google epoxy mold release.

>Jim
>

Jim,

I did Google "epoxy mold release" and called several makers of epoxy release's only to find out that their releases are made to release epoxy from something ELSE not from epoxy it's self. Even though the epoxy in epoxy steel is only approximatey 20%, it is still enough to create a problem.

Back to square one, any other thoughts would be appreciated.

Jon

Re^3: Problem with conforming steel epoxy failing to release.

Cynthia Eid
ceid@cynthiaeid.com
Fri Jul 18 '08

Hi Jon,
How about forgetting the idea of conforming dies, and simply using urethane and intensifiers to get the metal formed against the "primary" dies that you already have made? (If you don't know about intensifiers, check Susan Kingsley's book. If still unsure, ask about it here.)
Cynthia
www.cynthiaeid.com

Re^4: Problem with conforming steel epoxy failing to release.

Jon Olson
silverartisans@yahoo.com
Sat Jul 19 '08

On Fri Jul 18 '08, Cynthia Eid wrote
------------------------------------
>Hi Jon,
>How about forgetting the idea of conforming dies, and simply using urethane and intensifiers to get the metal formed against the "primary" dies that you already have made? (If you don't know about intensifiers, check Susan Kingsley's book. If still unsure, ask about it here.)
>Cynthia
>www.cynthiaeid.com

The only mention I found in Susan Kingsley's book of "intensifiers" suggested their use between the male and female dies, which still requires making the male epoxy die from the female die, correct? Which means I'm back to the same old problem of the dies sticking together.
Maybe we're not speaking of the same "intensifiers".

Jon

Re^4: Problem with conforming steel epoxy failing to release.

Jon Olson
silverartisans@yahoo.com
Wed Jul 23 '08

Hi Cynthia,

I've read Susan Kingsley's book, several times, and have found very little info on "intensifiers". Am I to assume that it is a very thin sheet of urethane that goes between the metal sheet and the female die?

I would appreciate more information on the subject.

Jon